Bottom line I think the folks over there are asking the wrong questions. The difference between good chisels and bad isn't how long they stay sharp but is a question of "balance" of how the chisel feels in hand and how much effort it is to sharpen and will it stay working sharp long enough to do work. Bad chisels fail at one or more of those qualities.
None of those questions can be answered for you, you have to take chisel to wood and live with it for awhile. In time it will either drive you barking mad, become your best friend, or just an ok tool and only you can decide which it is.
A corollary to all that is tool writers/reviewers are a terrible influence on both buyers and producers. They have to write about something so they write about the type of steel, how long it will hold an "edge", are the bevels "fine" and so on, anyway you know the results. A2 steel for paring chisels, almost no firmer chisels being produced, heavy planes i.e. Bedrock planes instead of Bailey pattern planes, thick irons, and cap irons that do not help control tear out. We are poorer as woodworkers because of their influence.
Ok, I'll get back on my meds but first is a photo I made for the chisel thread. Some of my 12mm/13mm (1/2") chisels with weight in grams. From left to right: Lee Valley PM (113g), Sorby (131g), Marple (107g), Ashly Iles (111g), Swiss Made (105g), Koyamaichi #2 White Steel (109g), and not pictured Kikuhiromaru #1 White Steel (99g)
Click it to big it.
My two favorite Western chisels, the ones that best meet the needed balance of a good chisel, are the pre-war Marples and the Ashly Iles. The other favorite user (not pictured) is the #1 White Steel Kikuhiromaru. Of all the chisels I own the Marples have the best balance of feel and steel. Of course as always....YMMV.
ken
Good to know about the Marples. I just scored a set of 5 for $30. Got then sharpened up at low angle for paring (20 deg) but haven't put them to the test yet.
ReplyDeleteJim B
Jim,
DeleteI can't vouch for post 1930 Marple chisels. The 30's and earlier chisels are as good as chisels get after that I don't know.
ken
Hi Ken
ReplyDeleteThose discussions can be either funny or scary to observe. I agree completely that the best chisel is the one that you yourself like the best, either because of the way it fits your hand or because of the balance or you like the color etc.
As far as I have understood the "thing" about the Aldi chisels, it is that Paul Sellers advocated them as a fine set of tools for the price, and they could be made more comfortable with a little bit of work, and then you would end up having a nice looking set of chisels that hadn't cost a fortune.
One of my favourite chisels at hme is a 3/8" Sorsakoski from Finland. It has got a nice handle, and stays sharp until it is blunt, at which point I sharpen it again.
Best regards
Jonas
Jonas,
DeleteYou understand, a good chisel stays sharp until it needs sharpening. I'm one to talk because I have too many chisel but I'd rather have a couple or three good chisels vs. a rack full of ok chisels.
ken
This seems to be more about the tool industry than chisels.
ReplyDeleteOne problem facing manufacturers is that making tools the same old way means competing with used versions of your entire product line, available cheaply and plentifully. You have to do something new to pry open the wallets. Stanley and Record tried to sell Bailey planes along ebay
and couldn't do it. Now you have A2 everything, bedrock patterns, thicker blades because they're "new".
Refusing to pay a fair price for goods puts good companies out of business. Ashley Iles chisels are made with top grade materials and are hand finished. They are well designed and manufactured. The price is quite fair considering they are something the buyer will use them for the rest of their lives.
Setting the bar at $2/chisel (Aldi) only perpetuates the race to the bottom that makes mainstream companies send production to China. Paul Sellers recognizes the value of his own work but seems to expect tool manufacturers to work on the cheap.
The middle market is eroded now with tools coming from boutiques or grocery stores.
Hi Steve.
DeleteI think you have some very valid points here.
Maybe it is the idea that a full set of chisels will impress everyone that drives a lot of us to get a lot of chisels, What most people don't openly brag about is how they mainly use 2 or 3 sizes for 99% of all the jobs.
I guess that in the "old days" a carpenter or a joiner would regularly use up a chisel, but those days are long gone. Like you say, a chisel will normally last the rest of a lifetime for someone.
I have to admit that I seldom buy new tools, but the few times I have done so, getting s new top notch dovetail saw or a very nice plane is a joy.
Brgds
Jonas
I had a very witty reply all ready to post when Blogger ate it....Guess I'll just have to say I agree for the most part.
DeleteSteve,
DeleteYou stated, "Setting the bar at $2/chisel (Aldi) only perpetuates the race to the bottom that makes mainstream companies send production to China. Paul Sellers recognizes the value of his own work but seems to expect tool manufacturers to work on the cheap."
To be fair to Paul I don't believe he advocates that everyone purchase cheap Aldi chisels but only that cheap Aldi Chisels are ok. When trying to help people get started in Woodworking cost is often a factor that keeps people away from the craft. Helping them to get started at low cost takes the entry price down. If they really enjoy the craft they will get better chisels and other tools down the road.
Could not agreed more with what you wrote. At the end of the day, forget what everybody else ( including me) wrote, How did it feel in your hands is what matter more. And of course, no one are the same so...YRSMV 😎
ReplyDeleteBob, on the road with Jean
Bob,
DeleteAre you heading 3 time zones southwest?:-) Be careful the greyhairs are moving this time of year.
You're supposed to resharpen Aldi chisels?
ReplyDeleteSteve,
DeleteOnly after 6 to 8 hours of use.
ken
When they dull, rip open a new pack.
DeleteSteve D,
DeleteI guess they are cheap enough it might work for some folks :-).
ken
I tend no to get too wrapped up in this. I've been using three chisel sizes for three years (1/4", 1/2", 3/4", 1"). I could even get by without the 1". At least in America for most, the cost isn't likely to be a concern. I just want a tool that works well and feels good in my hand.
ReplyDeleteYep, I agree but I fall off the wagon often. That's why I have rack after rack of chisels. :-)
DeleteHummm....my blog has me locked out of posting comments as myself. Go figure.
ReplyDeleteIf I can figure out how to be OK Guy I have more to say.
ReplyDeleteken
Hi Ken
DeleteI hope you manage to get back to being OK guy again.
Does that mean that you are some sort of Batman villain in the mean time? (Like in the old series with Adam West).
Please check that you haven't been bitten by some chemically charged or plutonium radiated insect.
With hopes of a speedy recovery to your old self
Brgds
Jonas
Ok guys I'm back to being me....Not a clue why but Blogger signed me out. BTW, have I ever told you how much I love computers?
ReplyDeleteken
Ken,
ReplyDeleteI completely agree. Order of importance for me is (1) balance and ergonomics, (2) ease of sharpening) (3) durability of the steel. I prefer the older English, tanged chisels like your Marples. I often make an octagonal handle and ditch the ferrrule, though I will keep the style of handle shown in your photo if it's in good shape.
Anyone who says they get 6-8 hours between sharpenings probably has no idea what a truly sharp chisel is. I would guess I go 15-60 minutes between sharpenings, depending on the chisel, the wood, and the type of work.
Steve,
DeleteI try to get new buyers to A and B my pre-war Marples vs. almost any other modern chisel. Sometimes they get it most do not.
There is a reason my sharpening bench is a couple of feet off the working end of the main bench and the stones are always in place. :-)
ken
Wow, this blog entry generated lots of comments. For a simple looking tool, chisels are quite a “personal” thing, as far as feel, balance etc.
ReplyDeleteBob, and his grey hairs in Buffalo USA for the week
Damn Bob, I thought I'd be seeing you on my doorstep ready to eat. Buffalo isn't even a good start.
ReplyDeleteI don't know if it is because most folks have not had a good chisel in hand or if they just take woodworking writers to heart but whatever the only way to find 'em is to use 'em.
ken
Paul Sellers doesn't say Aldi Chisels are perfect. For himself he changed the handles: https://paulsellers.com/2014/12/changing-the-shape-of-ash-chisel-handles/
ReplyDeleteHis aim is to get people started in hand woodworking, where possible with "good value for money" tools.
At least those chisels are made to a known standard (not to me) as they bear a DIN number (which should imply that the German corporate which put them on the market makes quality control on them).
There are two ALDI brand (Aldi-Süd and Aldi-Nord) unfortunately I don't have the right one in Belgium.
Until now I have worked with no name (chinese?) flea market chisels. Easy to sharpen (other side of the coin, iron a bit soft). it works.
Sylvain