I hadn't planned on an immediate follow up post but some links came up in the comments that need to be in the main body.
The first from Sylvain taking you to "A Woodworker's Musings" blog. In that posting are several other links of interest,
While here we might as well talk about some of the things that make a good bench, especially for a first time builder. Those factors can be summed up easily: Simple, easy and quick to build, cheap, and stable. Easy to state but as always the devil is in the details.
Simple and easy and quick to build kinda go together but not necessarily. A Roubo bench can be very simple, four legs, six stretchers and a slab and you have a basic Roubo. Even in that simple state it can be difficult to build with lots of laminations to get the needed size timbers and the joints while they may be fairly simple are large and require precision. When you start adding the extras such as leg vises, wagon vises, sliding dead man and so on the bench go from simple to build to very complex and time consuming. I've seen builds posted that stretch on for years.
Cheap is another place where a Roubo sucks hind tit. Wood costs, even Big Box construction grade mystery wood, and a Roubo uses a lot of wood as built by most makers.
Stable, there is no question a well made Roubo at several hundred pounds or more is about as stable as you can get. My Roubo made from Beech could hold a Peterbuilt and not move. The same with the SYP one. I'm pretty sure I could say the same about my much lighter shop Moravian not that I would want to test it. Again while weight is a factor in stability it isn't the only thing that affects stability.
I know it sounds like I'm picking on the French bench but it is the bench that is in fashion today and the point of these posts is to think about what makes a good bench for both the first time and experienced builder.
More to come,
ken
Back when a Roubo was a contemporary design it would save time in that the sawyers would cut a benchtop from a log in 2 cuts. Making anything else would require extra effort. Fast forward to today and a top can have 10 or more glue joints then many more for the legs. Only the form is being implemented in most builds given that access to timber in that scale is a rarity.
ReplyDeleteGiven modern constraints of mobility, basement workshops and lumber availability the more engineered benches that gain rigidity through joinery and structure make more sense. Your choice of the Moravian as a travel bench is a perfect example.
Steve,
DeleteYou have said what I tried to say in a lot fewer words. I've always been accused of building clocks when asked the time. I guess it is the teacher in me.
ken
Yea there's no way I would ever build a ruobo. Too expensive, too big, those big ass dovetailed double through mortises attaching the top to the base look like a real pain to cut and fit. And are they really going to hold up if I don't use hardwood for the legs? I'm working on my Moravian bench now, laminated Doug fir for the base, and some paint grade laminated hard maple (that I got a great deal on) for the top. All together it'll cost me around $200 - 250 I think. But I leveraged some Christmas gifts toward it, so out of pocket its going to be more like $80! I plan to bolt the top onto the base (don't trust myself and don't want a broken foot), but besides that I'm sticking with will's design. I was thinking about going with a 3" top? Sound reasonable? Will's is 3.5",but the original is 2.5". The only thing that worries me is how heavy the top will be - I was thinking I'd do an 18" slab, then 6" of tool well, all 6'6" long or thereabout. What're the dimensions of your benches? Are you able to lift the tops yourself?
ReplyDeleteJeremy,
DeleteDon't be afraid of the blind pegged slab. Will has posted he has used his like a rented mule for over three years with no problems. I've used mine on a couple of benches for over two with almost daily use and lots of take apart and put togethers.
The slabs on the portable benches are made from a 8/4 Beech board. They measure about 50mm thick (slightly under two inches if my math is correct_. The shop bench slab is laminated Beech about 90mm (3 1/2") thick and just under 2150mm (~7'). Either thickness has worked for anything I've wanted to do on the benches. The 90mm slab is heavy and needs one young man or two old farts to move it. The portable bench slabs are very easy for this OF to move without help but they are also only about 1700mm (~5') long.
I hope this help,
ken
Thanks ken! That does help. I.. A young man, but I don't consider myself particularly strong - always been skinny. How wide are the slabs on your benches?
DeleteI. Thinking 18" for mine, but. Maybe that's overkill. I'm thinking that my 3" sounds about right then. It won't be a traveling bench by any means, but I rent right now, so I'm going to have to move it out of my basement eventually.
Jeremy, to save weight and money you can make the top stiff for the first few inches then have a thinner top at the back of the bench. Add one thick piece at the back to match the front and it will sit properly on the frame. The heavy loads of planing or mortising would be at the front of the bench. If you can make the top separate into smaller pieces it will be easier to move when you have to get it out of the basement.
DeleteScandinavian and Nicholson benches both use the thick/thin/thick top cross section but in different ways.
3x18x6-1/2 feet will be a heavy top, especially in hardwood.
As you've learned in Ken's blog, having 2 or more benches is not a bad thing. During a project you don't want to clear a project off the bench to plane one more board or sharpen something.
Best luck to you
Jeremy,
DeleteThe two portable benches slab width was determined by the widest board I could find at the time of the build. The first build slab was 260mm (~10 1/4"). The second is 375mm (~14 3/4"). The third slab was laminated from 8/4 Beech and is 460mm (a hair under 18"). Any of the three widths has worked well. The only reason for the wider slab was I wanted a little more width in the shop bench, not for working real estate but to give a more stable base across the bench and extra bench weight. Either goal could be met with a narrow slab/base and added sandbags if you are room limited.
ken
Whoops! Forgot to hit "notify me". Checked it on this comment.
ReplyDeleteWill Meyers 2012 comment:
ReplyDelete"The 13 in wide top works out well too. I kind of had reservations about the narrow work surface but in use I have noticed that 99% of the time I am only working on the front six inches; so that concern was really unfounded. "
His (unchanged) 2018 opinion here:
https://eclecticmechanicals.com/2018/11/18/moravian-workbench-faqs/#more-223
Sylvain
Sylvain,
DeleteThanks for the link. I'm in complete agreement with Will, I know fanboy and all that rot but the little bench plays well above its weight class.
ken
You got me convinced, Mr Clock maker :-) My next bench will be a Morovian
ReplyDeleteBob, with Rudy wanting to go out...brrr
Bob,
DeleteI think you will be pleased. Not only a pleasure to work on but an easy quick build,
After the last couple or three days here in the desert I'm thinking of moving farther South :-). These old bones don't handle cold well and the other night it was cold enough to almost freeze the water pipes. How cold was it? It has been so cold Maggie isn't going for her morning Esther Williams turn in the pool, Mexico calls.
ken
I've been snowshoeing twice this week. Come up for a visit and you won't feel cold when you go home. :-)
ReplyDeleteAndy,
ReplyDeleteAnother ex-Oregonian and I were visiting yesterday and we both agreed as much as we love Oregon after years in AZ there ain't no way we could handle the Winters. And the truth is Oregon Winters, other than being wet, are not too bad.
AZ Winters spoil you.
ken